Oratex is like Yoga Pants

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SheepdogRD
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SheepdogRD »

I'm still building, but I'm impressed with Oratex's toughness. I accidentally tried to stuff a brace through the belly when temporarily installing a seat, and it stretched the belly fabric out into a 2"-high pimple. I discovered it the next morning and thought I'd have to re-cover the area. I left it overnight. The next day, it had pulled back and there's never been any evidence of my screw-up. I've had a couple of parts that got battered in storage and transfer... with no damage. It's really tough stuff.

I also like the fact that I can make a change in my aileron and just cover the part I changed... no painting. If I want to add an inspection port, it's pretty easy, and the only thing I have to paint is the cover.

If there's another build, the fabric will be Oratex.
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by mark »

Thanks for the info. I'm still on the fence, but leaning towards Oratex. The drawbacks in my mind are the fact that the process will cost a full three times more than say that of SuperFlight, the 'protrusions' on any surface need to have backing plates installed, satin finish of the colors, and finally, I'm not sure Oratex will be viewed as a positive on the resale market, i.e. not sure it will add any increased value to the airframe. But.. I really hate painting!
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SheepdogRD
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SheepdogRD »

I don't think it will cost three times as much as SuperFlight when you throw in the cost of paint and paint equipment. You'll save a LOT of time sanding between coats, especially with zero coats. That said, you'll still paint your cowling, and you'll still have to paint all the fittings that stick out.

Yes, the finish is satin. To quote Billy Payne, "These things are dirt bikes of the air." They may get scratched in the bush, and you won't worry with Oratex. With perfect shiny paint, you'll worry.

The resale market is hot right now, and Oratex seems to be a plus. (Nope, mine is not for sale.)
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by mark »

Thanks for the feed back. I am leaning towards Oratex. However the price uplift for them is a consideration. I have a quote from SuperFlight for $3757. This included the fabric, tapes, glue, primer, top coat and even some trim color. Compare this to what BAF gave me. For second grade fabric, it came to $9016. Going to first grade, it comes to $10700. So just short of 3 times as expensive. Yes.. a lot more labor with the traditional system.. but I'd feel a whole lot better if it was only twice as expensive.
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SheepdogRD
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SheepdogRD »

[quote="mark"]$10700. So just short of 3 times as expensive.[/quote]
Wow -- that's higher than I thought it would be. I'd be interested in seeing if they quoted the same amount of fabric.
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by mark »

Did a compairison of the quotes. Oratex included 41 meters of fabric, or 44.8 yds. SuperFlight was for 45 yards. So very close. I did have some extra baggage area fabric included from Oratex that added $370. So removing this, the like to like compairson is $10,286 for Oratex, and $3,757 for SuperFlight. This assuming that all the necessary tapes and glues are included in each quote (to me, it looks like they are all in the quotes). Shipping is not included in the SuperFlight quote. But in any case, the delta between the two is about $6,500. Now that I typed it out.. that's quite a uplift!
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SheepdogRD
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SheepdogRD »

I'm a builder, not a painter, and I had neither painting equipment nor a paint booth. I knew I wouldn't be satisfied with the quality of my own painting. I guess I could have reduced the cost by just having it painted and doing all the prep and sanding myself, but that wasn't very attractive, either. So the cost of getting the plane painted was the primary factor that made the Oratex decision for me. I also liked the no-fumes covering process.

I'm building in a small shop: the plane gets the space of a one-car garage. Over the build, she's taken some accidental hits, but the Oratex suffered no damage. In the long run, the damage resistance of the fabric -- and its built-in color -- are the things that have made it seem a very good investment, especially for a bushplane.

Still, that's a big delta.
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I agree with Sheepdog, the toughness alone is worth the price difference.
But
Remember… the superflight fabric is so cheap that you don’t worry about the scrap, and end up with scrap that could be used. - they tell you to order too much.
I used 20 yards less than the “recomended” amount and had some left over.
DO NOT order the factory “recomended” amount of fabric if using Oratex!
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by mark »

Hello.. well.. I ordered my fabric from SuperFlite. After way more thought than this deserved, at the end of the day, the huge price gap was just too much to turn away. I ordered the fabric from Plane Fun Aircraft and saved even more. So the final comparison is up through color with SF about $2.7K and Oratex is $11.7K. I'd rather not paint, but $9,000... just sayin! And I kind of like a shinny paint job anyway.

Additional information: Before deciding, I did make test frames and covered one with SuperFlite one with Oratex. I put two coats of automotive polyurethane paint on the SF test sample. I then proceeded to 'abuse' them by hitting them with the ball end of a ball peen hammer. Started out with light blows, and progressing to harder and harder hits to the point of failure. I have to say, BOTH seemed pretty tough and failed about the same time. Both seemed to 'heal' the lighter blows with some heat. The Oratex performed better on 'healing' after the harder blows. But I was expecting the SF to fail miserably, compared to Oratex, but they seemed to me to be very close. Both seemed to puncture with sharp objects and tear about the same. So from this simple test.. durability was a wash. I'm sure that Oratex will be much easier to patch however.

So, there you have it. My SF kit (50 yards by the way) is in shipment now. Billy ordered more as I plan to cover the rear baggage area.
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I covered mine for $6,500 all in, in a week,
including interior bagage area.

No painting, no sanding.
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

I guess I should update this.
3 1/2 years on the Oratex now, still super happy with it. It is still tight, not fading that I can tell.

I have had a few spots where the tapes have peeled here and there, not the whole thing, just a few inches. This tells me that I did not get the temp hot enough when I set the glue. Easy fix, wipe w alcohol, and hit it with the iron, good as new.

There have been a few hard hits, that left dents in the fabric, but nothing that a heat gun didnt fix easily. That is the best thing about Oratex.

There have been some bad fuel leaks, and oil leaks, but no effect on the fabric.
SmoothIsFast
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SmoothIsFast »

Recently joined and read this thread with interest, as I'm considering a Highlander build with Oratex in the future. Any guess as to how much weight you saved by going with Oratex vs. a more traditional cover and paint process?
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BDA
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by BDA »

That is a hot topic...
Everyone that I have talked to (5+) that have weighed a bunch of the fabric they took off the airplane, and then weighed the same square footage of Oratex say between 20 and 25#.
Lars says 20-25#.
But, If you us a newer method and skimp on the coatings, I have heard that it is around 5#.
So - Depends who you ask. I have not done the weights.
SmoothIsFast
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by SmoothIsFast »

Sounds good. Weight savings aside, Oratex is appealing because I have no interest/ability in painting in my garage workspace.
vg23air
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Re: Oratex is like Yoga Pants

Post by vg23air »

Hello all,
I have spent weeks doing a study to determine which way to go on my 1995 Loehle Sport Parasol, I won't post a ton of data here, I can post my question very simplistically. I have never recovered anything.

This plane was covered in unstamped lightweight fabric and painted.
So... does anyone here know what the ballpark estimated cost of recovering it the old way would be, just the fabric and dope paint whatever, not the prep chemical and costs, just fabric and finish, for 71inches by 18 meters of fabric product.
I have a range of est cost (done my way) for oratex 600 of $2,000 to $2,700 for just the fabric (114 sq foot wing)
I am just interested in finding out what covering the old way cost, as I said, just fabric and paint not the prep work costs.
THANKS
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