Beringer brakes

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BDA
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Beringer brakes

Post by BDA »

The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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BDA
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by BDA »

AND

What oil are you using?

Beringer says to use mineral oil... but every brake fluid I have seen is synthetic.

I am thinking hydraulic fluid will be just fine.

Anyone have any other ideas?
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
EchoWhiskey
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by EchoWhiskey »

Thats a great question. I am starting brakes too and Beringer seems to think its useful. One of the benefits being preventing accidental prop strike with locked brakes. I see a value there as new to tailwheel and wanting to push the envelope. As it is adjustable, and not terribly heavy, why not?

I was slso told by Jack not to mount the reservior on the brake cylinder. However Beringer shows that too. He says mount on firewall.

I do like the idea of it being more stationary and not moving with rudder pedal
Ed Whitaker
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What do you get when things don't go as planned? Experience.
AV8R Paul
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by AV8R Paul »

I’ve never adjusted my valve since Chris and I completed the Build, we got it to where I liked it, and I just leave it alone.
BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
AV8R Paul
Certified Light Sport Repairman LSRM-A
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

BDA wrote:AND

What oil are you using?

Beringer says to use mineral oil... but every brake fluid I have seen is synthetic.

I am thinking hydraulic fluid will be just fine.

Anyone have any other ideas?
Mineral oil would get very thick at -20C wouldn't it? I just ordered my Beringers today, and will sell my new Matco system.
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
Is the proportional valve the knob on top on left side of pic ?
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

How much heavier are the Beringer system compared to Matco system ?
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BDA
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by BDA »

The picture above (red thing) the whole piece is P valve

I have not done weight comparison but someone else posted here that matco is 1 pound heavier I think, plus the double caliper to make them equal the Beringer setup.

As to mineral oil - aviation hydraulic fluid (chevron) is good to -50+F
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

BDA wrote:The picture above (red thing) the whole piece is P valve

I have not done weight comparison but someone else posted here that matco is 1 pound heavier I think, plus the double caliper to make them equal the Beringer setup.

As to mineral oil - aviation hydraulic fluid (chevron) is good to -50+F

thx
EchoWhiskey
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by EchoWhiskey »

Where are people that are using the valve mounting it? I'm not sure if the bracket is helpful or not.
Ed Whitaker
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

Got my Beringer 6” Wheels/Brakes for 1 1/4” axle on Superstol. I weighed them with a digital fish scale as they are in the 3 pics. The Beringer will need the four AN 4 bolts/nuts added, the Matco will need the 1 1/4” axle nut added to have correct comparison weights. But the weights as they are in the 3 pics are...Beringer 6 lb 4 oz, Matco 7 lb 11 oz. I’ll weigh again when I added the bolts to the Beringer and axle nut to Matco. And I’ll weigh the master cylinders/cylinders another day. The Beringer steel braidedlines will add weight but at the end of the day I think it will be a tie between the two weight wise.
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AV8R Paul
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by AV8R Paul »

Attached are some photo’s of where & how Chris Wallen installed the valve. We installed it and adjusted it once and it performed acceptable. I haven’t touched it since. It makes sense that once you find the right setting you will leave it alone.
Here are some info on my install:
The Proportioner valve is under the Pilots seat mounted with two adel clamps. The Brake Lock is under the passengers seat mounted on a small sheet metal tray. Both can be seen when the seats are moved aft of full forward position.

There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s

One thing, follow the break in procedures for the Berringer breaks. I wasn’t aware they had a specific break in process. I am replacing both the break pads and the Rotors.
BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
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AV8R Paul
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BDA
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by BDA »

Paul,
Please elaborate on why you have to replace your pads and rotors after 170 hrs.

And - when you adjusted the proportion valve initially, how close was it to max power available?

When landing do you have enough grab to lock up and nose over?

Thanks
SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
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CanadianSheepHunter
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Posts: 678
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:05 pm

Re: Beringer brakes

Post by CanadianSheepHunter »

AV8R Paul wrote:Attached are some photo’s of where & how Chris Wallen installed the valve. We installed it and adjusted it once and it performed acceptable. I haven’t touched it since. It makes sense that once you find the right setting you will leave it alone.
Here are some info on my install:
The Proportioner valve is under the Pilots seat mounted with two adel clamps. The Brake Lock is under the passengers seat mounted on a small sheet metal tray. Both can be seen when the seats are moved aft of full forward position.

There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s

One thing, follow the break in procedures for the Berringer breaks. I wasn’t aware they had a specific break in process. I am replacing both the break pads and the Rotors.
BDA wrote:The main reason I chose to use Beringer brakes on my plane were for the proportioner valve, and the ability to “tune” the brake power output.

So I get down to the final plumbing, and I am told that I dont need the proportioner valve, will never use it. As the brakes will need to be all the way “up” anyway.
“Nobody is using it”

So, just to make sure...

Is anyone adjusting their proportioner valve?

Have you seen any benefit to it?

Is it just needless weight?

Thanks
That’s an excellent You tube video on Beringer comparison thanks for the link
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SheepdogRD
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Re: Beringer brakes

Post by SheepdogRD »

AV8R Paul wrote:There is a you tube video of a comparison of Berringer versus Match Brakes in a kitfox. He compares weigh, & breaking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNOjH93u1kc&t=7s
It's an interesting video, but Matco isn't in it. That video is a comparison with the Grove/Cleveland system.

It's a woefully un-scientific test: a single run with each system, comparing an older Grove installation a brand new Beringer installation, and run by a tester who was hardly unbiased. I'd guess that very few -- if any -- Just aircraft are running Grove systems. And, while the practical test is closest to what we experience in use, it doesn't give us repeatable data comparing the peak braking forces available.

I haven't seen any testing that compares the Beringer system with a Matco system running intensifiers, 1/8" brake lines, and a remote reservoir. Steve Henry says those low-cost Matco modifications make the systems comparable.

I think the Beringer proportioning valve -- they call it the Anti-Lock Inline Regulator -- is a terrific idea. If it keeps me from nosing over as I learn to use the brakes judiciously, it might justify the added cost of the Beringer system. I wonder what comparable component might be available.
Richard Holtz
Highlander N570L -- Ms. Tonka -- in gestation

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