Highlander vs Kitfox Video

For general discussion of the Just Aircraft family of aircraft.
Includes: Highlander, Escapade, Summit and SuperSTOL.
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av8rps
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Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by av8rps »

If you don't already know Trent Palmer did a new video on his YouTube channel comparing his Kitfox 5 STI (STOL Inspired new Kitfox wing) to his friends Highlander. I think it is a really good video and like all of Trent's videos is very well done.

Not sure if I can get the youtube link or video to show while using this notepad computer, but here goes:

https://youtu.be/uGGt8WFy8R4
bluemax
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by bluemax »

I love the Trent Palmer videos. I didn't even know he existed until someone posted it here. I am a big Greg Swingle fan, especially because he lives a stones throw away, but I have to say that Trent has him beat.
Max Rentz
Newark, Ohio
av8rps
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by av8rps »

I like Greg Swingles videos too. But we are really a lucky group to have Steve Henry and Trent Palmer along with Greg representing us light sport back country enthusiasts. All of them are really great guys doing really great videos.

My wife commented how nice it is to see the younger crowd being attracted to this type of flying. She really made a good point...and we all know how important it is to bring in some younger aviators.
stefavon
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by stefavon »

Really enjoyed this comparison.

Does anybody have more info/images on the large baggage option of the S7?

Here is a list of features I thought stand out on each side.

Kitfox 7 STi
----------------
+ Generally more refined/quieter
+ more responsive on the controls
+ high power engine options (e.g. Rotax 915, Titan)
+ Higher Vne (and probably also Vno, nice during speed descends)


Highlander
---------------
+ better at bleeding off energy in descend
+ huge baggage area
+ more refined lines, arguable looks better
+ tall (1 ft higher than a kitfox)
+ shorter build time
AV8R Paul
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by AV8R Paul »

The 7 SS & 7 STi are the same Fuselage,
yes more the fit and finish of the Kitfox is more refined.
no I wouldn’t say Kitfox SS7 is more responsive, I’ve never flown a STi.
Rotax 915 is the best option, the Titan is too heavy for the plane & causes weight & balance issues (very nose heavy). I had a Rotax 912 100 HP.
If you fly with Pilot and 50 to 75 lbs in baggage you will need to use maximum trim to keep it flying level.
Yes Higher speed, very much less drag.
The baggage compartment is SMALL, I carried more in my SuperSTOL than I ever did in my Kitfox SS7. I also carried all of it in the baggage area. In the Kitfox I needed to put as much as possible in the passenger seat, or it used 100% of the trim to fly straight and level. SuperSTOL & Highlander are both better at bleeding off excess speed. Kitfox would float forever, if you didn’t nail speed on base.
I personally think the Kitfox looks better, and flys nicely. I had to ride right Rudder the entire time I flew the plane, or it would not be coordinated flight.
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AV8R Paul
Certified Light Sport Repairman LSRM-A
stefavon
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by stefavon »

Thanks for the pics.

I was wondering about w&b. Why else would the SuperSTOL XL be so much longer to accomodate the titan.

Since you have a SuperSTOL what cruise speed do you think would be possible with a 915 and an mt constant speed?

Also is there any chance you could extend the baggage area of an S7 to use is as a camper?
AV8R Paul
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by AV8R Paul »

If I were thinking of a 915, I would highly consider a Edge Performance Rotax Engine in a SuperSTOL, 150 Hours Power, Fuel injected, with a turbo, they start with the 912 hp engine. I prefer their fuel injection system. I’m guessing yo might see an honest 95 mph cruise speed.
AV8R Paul
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BDA
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Location: Kenai Alaska

Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by BDA »

Just for comparison
XL Stol bagage and extended bagage
Almost 5’ behind seat standard bagage
More than 5’ extended

Mentioned above: why is XL so much longer - it is not quite long enough to make up for the weight of the 0-340, still have to add a little weight - antlers, blueberries ...
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SuperStol XL Alaskan With Titan 340
N331AK. Shawn Taplin
Wing extensions,Symetrical Airfoil tail ribs (NACA 21)
Mods in progress: Heavier struts, Double slotted flaps
Goal: 15mph no wind
av8rps
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by av8rps »

As this discussion is including the Just Super STOL, I just want to remind everyone that the video was comparing a 120 hp Kitfox STI to a minorly modified 95 hp JA Highlander. To compare a Just Super STOL is tough as the Super STOL is really in a class by itself (as is mentioned in the video). Not much can compare to it in the STOL environment...well except maybe Steve Henry's highly modified JA Highlander (that thing rocks!)

I own a stock 912 Highlander as well as a Kitfox 912 Model 4. The model 4 Kitfox is a very good performing Kitfox being that it is on average about 125 pounds lighter than the newer model Kitfoxes. But yet my stock 95 hp 912uls Highlander will generally outperform the Kitfox except for top speed. The Kitfox is about 10 miles an hour faster at 120 mph vs 110 mph in the Highlander. So I think it says a lot that a stock 912 powered Highlander can hold its own against the hotrod of the Kitfox lineup. Especially when you consider that the Highlander is a considerably larger airplane but yet has less wing area. I would attribute that to the original Dean Wilson designed "Avid" high lift undercambered airfoil and the fact that my Highlander is only 680 lbs empty, making it only 50 pounds heavier than my Kitfox.

Oh, worth mentioning is my friend Larry's Model 4 with a zipper kit 912ul that makes something like 105 hp. His Kitfox and my Highlander would probably be about the closest match up performance wise, but the Highlander hauls much more. He can still probably outcruise me by a little, but he has his Kitfox set up for stol vs high speed. His climb is pretty amazing, but my Highlander is similar.

I really think the Just Aircraft Super STOL is a mega cool airplane. But I think the stock Highlander, or one with a few mods is the "Sleeper" of the JA designs. Its performance and versatility is unrivaled as far as I can tell.
AV8R Paul
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by AV8R Paul »

I never saw 120, much less 110 out of my Kitfox. If you said 102 to 105 I’d believe that, I had a model 7 SS.
av8rps wrote:As this discussion is including the Just Super STOL, I just want to remind everyone that the video was comparing a 120 hp Kitfox STI to a minorly modified 95 hp JA Highlander. To compare a Just Super STOL is tough as the Super STOL is really in a class by itself (as is mentioned in the video). Not much can compare to it in the STOL environment...well except maybe Steve Henry's highly modified JA Highlander (that thing rocks!)

I own a stock 912 Highlander as well as a Kitfox 912 Model 4. The model 4 Kitfox is a very good performing Kitfox being that it is on average about 125 pounds lighter than the newer model Kitfoxes. But yet my stock 95 hp 912uls Highlander will generally outperform the Kitfox except for top speed. The Kitfox is about 10 miles an hour faster at 120 mph vs 110 mph in the Highlander. So I think it says a lot that a stock 912 powered Highlander can hold its own against the hotrod of the Kitfox lineup. Especially when you consider that the Highlander is a considerably larger airplane but yet has less wing area. I would attribute that to the original Dean Wilson designed "Avid" high lift undercambered airfoil and the fact that my Highlander is only 680 lbs empty, making it only 50 pounds heavier than my Kitfox.

Oh, worth mentioning is my friend Larry's Model 4 with a zipper kit 912ul that makes something like 105 hp. His Kitfox and my Highlander would probably be about the closest match up performance wise, but the Highlander hauls much more. He can still probably outcruise me by a little, but he has his Kitfox set up for stol vs high speed. His climb is pretty amazing, but my Highlander is similar.

I really think the Just Aircraft Super STOL is a mega cool airplane. But I think the stock Highlander, or one with a few mods is the "Sleeper" of the JA designs. Its performance and versatility is unrivaled as far as I can tell.
AV8R Paul
Certified Light Sport Repairman LSRM-A
FredHoffman
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by FredHoffman »

My highlander is going faster than I had expected. I have 26" tundra tires, open gear with rage shocks without any fairings a t3 tailwheel shock and no fairings over any control pulleys and lots of vortex generators. There is a lot of draggy stuff out there. 5500 RPM gets me 103 mph, what is amazing is that 100mph or so is like a wall, pulling the power back to 5000 rpm and I'm still going 90 mph. I have flown in formation with other planes and our airspeed indicators are the same and the top end was verified with 2 way GPS runs. In my installation the Dynon Skyview is dead on.
av8rps
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by av8rps »

Paul,

My Kitfox 4 is on amphib floats and will go 120 mph wide open, but I am using an IVO inflight adjustable prop. I tested that prop again and again and learned that the IFA advantage gives me only about 6 mph on the top end compared to a ground adjustable prop. But the inflight adjustable prop really helps me to get up and out of the water, as with the flattest pitch setting on the switch I can get 5800 rpm for takeoff, which gets every ounce of Horsepower out of my 80 hp 912ul. If I had the 95 hp 912uls version I might not need the IFA prop? But it works so well on my Kitfox that I'm gonna just keep the 80 hp engine and the IVO IFA prop.

I took a video this last weekend while doing some float flying in my Kitfox 4. The video is crude at best, and I don't know how to get that from my phone to here, but in freeze framing it my speeds show clearly that I was flying at 92 mph at 4500 rpm. That is pretty much my normal speed that I tend to fly when I don't care about getting anywhere and am just sightseeing. But if I really want to go and push the throttle to the panel my Kitfox floatplane will do 120 mph wide open (using my 72 inch 3 blade IVO prop). If I put my shorter 68 inch blades on I will gain another 5 mph, giving me 125 mph. My 66 inch blade will give me another 2 or 3 mph, but the shorter props don't get me out of the water anywhere near as well as the 72 inch prop. So I basically just use the 72 inch prop.

The newer model Kitfoxes in my experience are not as fast as the Model 4's. The newer models weigh much more than the Model 4 (150 lbs more is not uncommon), and the newer Kitfox fuselage is larger, which equates to more overall drag, a higher wing loading, and an end result of slower speeds.
av8rps
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Re: Highlander vs Kitfox Video

Post by av8rps »

Fred,

My Highlander is probably a bit cleaner than you describe yours, and I am running smaller tires. So getting 110 mph at 5450 rpm is not all that hard for me. In fact, wide open at 5800 rpm I can get 116 mph, but you are only supposed to run the 912 at those rpms for no more than 5 minutes, so I rarely run mine that hard.

I completely understand your comment about "hitting a wall" at or over 100 mph. Avid Flyers that use the same airfoil as the Highlander do the same thing. The Avid Magnum with a 160 to 180 hp Lycoming could power through that wall better than most other engine choices, but it struggled to get over 130 mph.

Paul S.
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