AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:13 pm

I know I live in Texas but Crap I hate Winter, it’s cold, which is going to make building composite parts difficult Luckily I have just a few more Carbon parts and with the heat box I can get them to cure. I guess I’ll be breaking out the heat box. I finished recutting the ribs for the Vertical Stabilizer & Rudder. My big concern is bonding the ribs to the tubing. I’ll need make a bigger heat box to fit the Vertical Stabilizer and the rudder into.
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby BucF16 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:27 am

Good morning Paul, May I ask where in North Texas do you live? You can PM me if you wish.

Cheers,
Bruce
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:13 am

11/21/2017 Thursday I glued the templates to the plywood, also cleaned up some of the manufacturing mess, vacuumed, and the blew out the hanger. I did some hanger flying with Bill. 4.0 hours

11/22/2017 Friday I rough cut out the seven ribs. The bottom three Ribs for the Vertical Sabilizer, & Rudder are really long. Some of the ribs your work pretty bowed, I will definitely need to add ribs stiffness. 4.0 hours

11/23/2017 Saturday Cut and fit 5 - full and 2 - 1/2 ribs started making ribs stiffeners figured out some good anchor points for some of the ribs and some twist. Waaa Hooo, The last rib is cut and fit now I need to do is mount them. I have started making the rib stiffeners. 8 hours.

You can see some of the perpendicular stiffeners on a couple of ribs. I need to bring the ribs home, & epoxy Home so I can bond them to the ribs, prior to varnishing the ribs. Several of the ribs look like bracket, either an open ( or a closed ) bracket.
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D440E491-69EE-4211-A66D-1ECBE9E43766.jpeg
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:19 pm

kenryan wrote:Joe B. -- Oratex paints beautifully if that's what you want.


Joe B

What type of paint have you seen used? It would be the only way to counteract the weight gain from the tail feather ribs! Maybe Santa will wrap my plane in Oratex?

AV8R Paul
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SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby kenryan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:40 pm

Oratex makes paint. I think it is called Oracolor. Ask Lars. Save about 4 lbs with a titanium firewall.
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:32 pm

Merry Christmas - it’s Christmas Day, I brought some ribs home so I could make some progress on my Christmas Gift. I bonded on some rib stiffeners/spacers on a few of the ribs. Since it’s 43 degrees outside, I’m kind of have no choice but to heat up the epoxy so it can be worked. Our guest bathroom is the perfect spot. Put some clear plastic down to protect tge vanity top, close all of the doors, add a small space heater warm up the room and the epoxy, so I can bond on the stiffeners. The wood glue isn’t offensive smelling, so the wife isn’t complaining. Now that I have that task done, I can sit and wait for them to cure. I’ll build spacers for two more ribs tomorrow, and then do the same for them. 30 minutes
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40162558-DC0D-4AA0-8A3A-7198C2FA3A75.jpeg
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby moving2time » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:18 am

Paul. As you can see Kenryan answered your question about painting Oratex. He had posted that info to me earlier which is what you copied and asked me about. Anyway, I had heard that Oratex could be painted but if I use Oratex it will be because I really don't want to even try painting. Besides, kinda defeats the purpose of using Oratex. I also like the amazing strength of Oratex which is a huge plus.

How are you planning on building the tail support wires?

I thought a lot about building a flying tail but I think I would re-build the whole tail out of sheet metal and figure out a way to anchor it to the frame or maybe use wire cut foam with the factory frame similar to your ribs. The plywood ribs look like a lot of work and it also looks like the weight is building up. Proof that you can't get something for nothing when building an aircraft. Clearly an all sheet metal tail would also be a lot of work but at least then I could get the hinge point in the proper location and hopefully shed the support wires. Shedding all that drag from the tube frames and the support wires might balance out all the work and the weight gain might be minimal. The whole idea is an argument between weight, effort, and performance gain isn't it!

Didn't I read something about Just offering a flying tail for the SS XL? How are they doing it? I don't believe I have ever seen one. Anyone got a photo? Joe B
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby BDA » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:59 pm

I have the just flying tail, pictures in the Yoga pants thread
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Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:47 pm

BDA wrote:I have the just flying tail, pictures in the Yoga pants thread

BDA,
Looking good. I didn't realize the SuperSTOL on Yoga Pants thread was your plane. So you opted for Oratex. I was thinking about going that route but the Cost, is scaring me off.
AV8R Paul
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SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby moving2time » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:39 pm

BDA, thank you for pointing out that your tail was Just's version of a flying tail. Actually, I am disappointed that they took such a skimpy rout. Do you think it will make a difference? It isn't really a flying tail aerodynamically? AV8R Paul's flying tail mods should be closer to true aerodynamic tail feathers than Just's attempt.

How far are you from flying. Now I am looking forward to a report. Actually I can't wait to hear a report from both of you. Do you have any experience in a Highlander to compare the difference? Apparently it doesn't help with landing short or Steve Henry would be modifying his tail feathers for sure! You gotta love the enthusiasm Steve has in improving the Highlander's STOL performance and his pension for sharing his results. This forum is filled with valuable information. Keeps me busy keeping up with everything going on with these aircraft. Love it! Joe B
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby BDA » Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:35 pm

When I flew the factory XL with that same tail I was impressed by the difference between it and the original.
Harrison said the same thing.
Then they told me that they wouldnt have one ready formy kit so I made NACA 008 airfoil ribs out of aluminum similar to the bearhawk tail. But just before I epoxied them in I spoke with Troy and he said he would get his new ones to me and they are nice.
If I were to do it again I would add a couple ribs maybe - I still might.
In the mean time I sent a cooy of my rib templates to Chris, for another XL he was doing and I heard back that it flew very well but not much diff then the new factory tail. That suprised me, I was sure that there would at least be more lift on the tail when taxiing.
The main concern tho is the need for more elevator authority at slow speed. Gary has flown it enough now that he is using a higher angle of attack without stalling the tail as was happening with the old one. He told me that he had to relearn his landing technique but it is better. Harrison told me that the new tail Will fly “higher” in cruise, and thus faster.
Steve has his own reasons for not playing with the tail, I will let him talk about those if he wants to.

We have found with the super cubs here that more elevator and rudder authority is the key to slow and slower while being in control, especially with full flaps.

If you want to talk to someone who did this years ago and has alot of experience with flying tail in a super stol get ahold of Allen Ronk in Austrailia.
Ronkstol on facebook.
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
#486 - Started 9-2016
Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby BDA » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:44 pm

Edit - I sent 0012 templates to Chris for the horizontal, and put 008 ribs on my vertical.
SuperStol XL With Titan 340
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Mods in progress: Wing extensions, Airfoil tail ribs
Goal: 15mph no wind
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:39 pm

I have NACA0008 ribs in both the Horizontal Stab - Elevator, and the Vertical Stabilizer - Rudder. I finally finished adding some Rib Stiffeners, the longest rib has a little longer than a 48" cord length. I'm not going to be getting a lot of scalloping between the ribs, because I will have leading edges for both the Horizontal Stabilizer and the Vertical Stabilizer. I took a picture of the finish Product leading edge after I figured out how to affix it to the ribs for bonding. 7.0 hours
Attachments
IMG_1077.jpeg
Here is the leading edge on the Elevator tips.
IMG_1076.jpeg
The Leading edge goes back to the High Point of the airfoil, it should look pretty good. I pleased God inspired someone to invent Zip Ties, they are a blessing for ones nerves.
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:44 pm

Any more votes on the Color Selection? See post on Dec 05, 2017 for the three choices. Currently on the 4th page.
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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Re: AV8R Paul’s SuperSTOL XL

Postby AV8R Paul » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:44 pm

First coat of varnish on the ribs for the vertical stabilizer & Rudder. Tomorrow come out and sand and apply the second coat. I’m excited to get the ribs installed. It got cold here in Texas so I made me a cure box to keep the varnish warm enough to cure. I’ll also need it for bonding the ribs into the Vertical Stabilizer & Rudder. Right now I have one box heater and one incandescent light bulk aka heater and it will be good until tomorrow. I’ll turn the space heater off when I leave for the evening.
Attachments
DBF0DB24-132D-4F3F-AF5D-CFA2895B9AD4.jpeg
433912B3-D17E-420A-8266-5E319EFFF7CE.jpeg
Closed up and ready to go home.
AV8R Paul
SuperSTOL XL - N357TX - Titan 180 HP
S/N JA498-11-16
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